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Talk:Upgrade Guide
Duplicate article Isn't this article a bit redundant, given the other page on the same subject? I do admit to this one having a better title though. It would also provide justification for the ship upgrades to be included. Twilsemail 20:14, February 4, 2010 (UTC) Dang, I don't know how I missed the other page.Nhindman 20:29, February 4, 2010 (UTC) --- Looking through the page, it doesn't have the costs (which are mostly missing here) and the formatting is not as good in my opinion. I'll try to find time later today to merge the data between pages, and then figure out whether to move/merge the pages.Nhindman 20:37, February 4, 2010 (UTC) If it is an upgrade guide, isn't it better to reorganize by Location, not type? Kasugurami 04:35, February 5, 2010 (UTC) Depends what you want to do with it. The two uses I'm looking for are at the end of the game, trying to figure out what I missed when I have 4/5 of something, or which missions I should take first if I want to max out assault rifles. Nhindman 06:17, February 5, 2010 (UTC) --Comparing the two pages again, the format for the other page works better for a location based list, while the tables here work better for an upgrade type list. I'd suggest the other page be converted into a list of missions and which upgrades can be found on a mission, cross linked so you can find both formats depending on what you want to do. Nhindman 17:55, February 5, 2010 (UTC) One thing that the other page doesn't have, which is why I found this pagein the first place, is the associated cost of each upgrade. Also, the other page doesn't even mention upgrades that are unlocked, but not found. That being said, I think it makes sense to include ship upgrades as well. Blindman25 18:43, February 11, 2010 (UTC) I think this page is pretty much done for now, though minor formatting things can still be debated and changed (ship upgrades do exist at the bottom, and I feel grunt's shotgun research under "misc upgrades" is enough). Alphabetizing/reordering the catagories... maybe. I feel that the first half of the Mass Effect 2: Upgrade Locations page should be deleted for being redundant having worse formatting, but the second part sorted by location should be kept. However, since I've put a lot of effort into this page I don't feel I'm an impartial observer. I'll let someone else do the changes. Nhindman 22:24, February 11, 2010 (UTC) I think we should merge them both (probably to the Upgrade Guide) and have two sections in it. The first is by location so people can read it as they play through the game and the second is with the tables listing everything. [[User:Bioevil087|'Bioevil087']] 03:53, February 12, 2010 (UTC) : Since it's been 4 days, I'll go ahead and be that "impartial observer" who will move the "By Locations" section on the other page to here, and then redirect people from that page to this page. Dch2404 17:19, February 16, 2010 (UTC) M-300 Claymore Heavy Shotgun I just thought I should point out that this weapon can actually be learned from and built for Grunt before the Collector ship. True, Shepard can't use it unless you specialize with it, but it is available beforehand. Vund223 18:08, February 5, 2010 (UTC) Costs A strictly aesthetics issue - we need to reformat the costs field. Turn it into numbers (not the k notation) and justify it. It's beyond my skills, though. -DarkJeff 16:50, February 8, 2010 (UTC) Tech Upgrades... Forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere. I did a search for "Tech Upgrade" and nothing specific came up. I'm playing as an Infiltrator. All of their powers (Tactical Cloak, AI Hacking, Incinerate) are Tech powers. If I get a Tech damage upgrade, it seems pretty obvious that the damage of my Incinerate will increase, but what about Tactical Cloak and AI Hacking? Tactical Cloak eventually has a damage boost. Will the tech damage upgrade increase the bonus damage? AI Hacking does no damage at all. Will the tech damage upgrade do anything for AI Hacking? Servius 06:59, February 15, 2010 (UTC) :Tactical Cloak doesn't get a bonus from anything, I believe. It was stated in a post by Eric Fagnan on Bioware, but I don't have the link handy. The only thing that'll help AI Hacking is the duration boost. As far as I know, anyways. --DarkJeff 07:05, February 15, 2010 (UTC) Proposal: table the information I played around with the content of this page, to make it somewhat easier to find. I made a partial version of this page (not all the information is moved, yet) here: User:Silverstrike/Sandbox/Upgrade Guide. I moved the information into a table (some styling is still needed) and made it sortable for easier searching for the information. Any ideas or comments? --silverstrike 20:07, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :I like the current heading structure better. Easier to find the one instance of the colored big word I'm looking for. 20:17, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::I disagree. If you sort by the column you are interested in and then use your browser's find function to jump straight to the first entry, it works just as well with less verbosity. It also reduces the risk of an entry being edited in one location but not another; maintaining only one set of data is better than two copies with different organization. The only thing I'd like to see is for the sort to allow you to not only sort by location, but by order of discovery within that location (which can be found first, second etc.). Obviously only relevant to missions, but that's where it is most critical; if you miss it you might not be able to go back. This might be solved simply by putting a number after the Location:Specific entry, so sorting by that column sorts by order of discovery within the quest, as well as location of discovery. ShadowRanger 20:30, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :::I like that idea, adding a number before or after the location link should be sufficient. --silverstrike 20:35, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::Also, could you include the cost for the upgrades? Or at least a column to hold them when verified? I think most of the credit costs in the existing article are slightly erroneous; they're the price *after* you've charmed/intimidated the owner into lowering prices, or completed the price drop mini-quest. Most weapon upgrades run 60,000 credits base IIRC, and drop to 50,000 only after cajoling. ShadowRanger 20:43, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :::::Cost could be added and show either credit cost or minerals needed (the inclusion of the discount with or without the full price is still something to discuss - I have no issue with it either way). --silverstrike 20:50, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I think the "after" price is sufficient if it is noted up front and the charm/intimidate is easy enough. Do you know how hard it is for a first time player to get the requisite Paragon/Renegade to convince owners to drop prices? I've only played with level 60, maxed out Paragon/Renegade imports (I abuse the infinite Paragon/Renegade exploits from the first game, so I start with +190 in each), and usually wear the Inferno armor, so my charm/intimidate abilities vastly outstrip a first time player's. If a new player starting from scratch can't reasonably meet the requirements for a while, we should list the base and discounted price. ShadowRanger 20:56, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :::::::I also played with an imported character, but got to the Omega market/Citadel very soon and didn't even try to raise the paragon/renegade bar. I think that the requirement for convincing the shop keepers to give you a discount is pretty low and most will be able to achieve the discount (I think that the game count on that - even after the discount you can't buy all items). Mineral quantity, on the other hand should be before the 'discount' - I think that engineers can get a discount on level four of their class power. --silverstrike 21:06, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::It is silly to depend on the browser as a crutch to account for poor formatting. I understand and support the need to reduce redundancy, but the proposed version does look very poor and messy at the moment. Maybe adding horizontal lines would help; I don't recall a Derelict Reaper Disabled within the game. 20:55, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :::The formatting is different, not better or worse. The existing page has the advantage of a good table of contents, which isn't really possible on a dynamically sorted table, thus the need for the browser assist. I believe the benefits of the dynamic sort outweigh that (on top of those mentioned above, it means a consistent format for all entries, no matter how they are sorted). ShadowRanger 20:59, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::The formatting is different, AND is worse (IMHO). When you depend on a browser asset to find things, that is worse when compared to a format where no browser asset is needed. For the current format, I don't even need to look at the TOC. The current sortable table looks messy, like a homogeneous wall of text. Just to reemphasize, horizontal table borders might alleviate this issue. 21:17, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :::::I was planning to do something quite similar once things got less hectic. Needs styling improvements, and perhaps a little CSS magic to inject into the TOC (if possible) but the basic idea is good. One useful trick with sorting by order of discovery is to have the relevant cell start with a sort key wrapped in a . With a little tweaking it may be possible to get the best of all worlds. --DRY 21:22, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I know there is still some work to be done on styling (it indeed look a bit messy), there is no problem inserting a TOC to that table (it will become somewhat redundant after first sorting) - theoretically, with a minor use of JavaScript, we could set a special TOC to highlight certain rows on the table, or show only those rows and hide the rest - alas, it is not possible... ::::::I don't think that we should hide the number - but I'm not against hiding it. --silverstrike 21:39, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :I can't seem to sort that page, possibly due to browser issues. I think it is fundamentally a bad idea to rely on javascript when it is not necessary to clearly portray the information. I don't really see where the table format gains anything that is worth breaking it on some browsers. --Nhindman 20:53, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::There's no browser issue - there is a user issue - I accidentally removed the sorting behavior, but now fixed the mistake. You can try sorting through it again - there will be no problem. ::You can still understand the data without the JavaScript code, it just help with the sorting. You can also turn off the stylesheet for the site and the data will still be readable and clear - the stylesheet just helps a little. --silverstrike 21:10, February 21, 2010 (UTC) Order of Locations Information The old upgrades location page had the locations listed in the order that they appeared in the game. Which seems to be a lot more useful, as if your hunting for a specific location there's the contents page, but if your playing through sorting through the whole list is a pain. (looking at each section as you play through it from the start) Does anyone object if I re-order the locations section so that it is listed by game progression rather than alphabetically? :It's not a particularly useful sort though. Too many clusters of missions (Dossier, Loyalty and N7 missions) have no required order. Even if you order them all by when they become available, you'll have giant clusters without an internal ordering, and it still won't be a simple "get everything in this order", since main quest missions will trigger and prevent you from completing them in availability order in any event. As is, you can simply click the ToC link for whichever mission you are actually playing, and it doesn't enforce a specific play order to do it either. ShadowRanger 05:41, February 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Perhaps material for an ME2 version of the Completionist Achievement Guide? --DRY 20:48, February 26, 2010 (UTC) Bypass and Hack Modules Is there a reason they're not listed here? The Bypass module is at Serrice Technology on Illium and the Hack Module is at Harrot's Emporium one on Omega. They're both listed at 25000 credits after discounts. Why does the table list the discounted price for everything too? Tetracycloide 12:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC) I think it might be useful to list the star charts on this page as well since they're upgrades of the galaxy map as much as ship upgrades are upgrades for the ship. I'm not 100% sure what this is supposed to be a list of, however, since it appears to be a mix of everything you can buy at a store other than custom armor pieces (which one could make a strong argument for including given the presence of the various weapons on the list most of which do not require any research be done) and anything that can be researched. If it's just a list of research upgrades then there are a lot of things that should be removed and if it's more than that there are a few things that should probably be added (like star charts and custom armor pieces).Tetracycloide 17:06, February 28, 2010 (UTC) Extra Rounds Concerning any "extra rounds" upgrades (I believe they're researchable for shotguns and SMG's?), I know they increase the ammo capacity for these guns, but not the clip size. The game says, "This bonus affects the entire squad." But would this really improve these weapons for squadmates? Don't they have unlimited ammo? Basically, would a shotgun ammo upgrade be useful for someone who does not use a shotgun, like an adept/sentinel/etc.? --Crush. 11:33, March 7, 2010 (UTC) : I'm pretty sure this is simply an oversight on the part of the developer. I have never, ever seen a squadmate run out of ammo before- even those using sniper rifles or shotguns (park them behind cover and they'll fire the former for minutes on end). Having the shotgun upgrade always available always makes some sense, because any class that doesn't have them can learn to use them on the Collector ship, but the SMG upgrade is utterly useless for a Soldier character. UERD 06:41, March 11, 2010 (UTC) Credits added I added a table of credits here. It seems like the best place for it, since they are really only used to purchase upgrades. So now you can reference how many credits are out there with how many you need. I'll keep my copy of the table for a while in case there is an uproar about it not belonging here and someone deletes it.Karstedt 21:01, March 19, 2010 (UTC) :It is a good addition becuase it provides a quick one glance reference to the amount of credits you will earn over the course of the game. Good job. Lancer1289 21:39, March 19, 2010 (UTC) Now that it's up and I'm looking at it, it might be useful to include resources in the table... They might not 'fit' though. I may compile a list and see if I can fit them in. Obviously, resources are less of an issue because those available in mission are so minimal anyway. But if I can make it look decent, I'll probably add them.--Karstedt 00:28, March 20, 2010 (UTC) I don't see a way to fit resources in there without messing up the ascetic. So I'm going to leave it as just credits. There's only around 20k of each mineral (6500 eezo) in missions anyway, so they don't significantly impact the totals you need.--Karstedt 23:27, March 20, 2010 (UTC) Would someone be so kind as to update the credits table with the Firewalker assignments, I cannot figure out how to extend a table. Here's a summary: Project Firewalker: Rosalie Lost - Funding 7,500, Found 7,500 Project Firewalker: Geth Incursion - Funding 2,500, Found 2,500 Project Firewalker: Volcano Station - Funding 1,250, Found 375 (Also 1 Medi-Kit) Project Firewalker: Survey Sites Located - Funding 1,250, Found 1,250 Project Firewalker: Prothean Site - Fund 3,750, Found 3,750 Thanks 03:50, March 24, 2010 (UTC) :Done.--Karstedt 12:47, March 25, 2010 (UTC) :I thought I should add the Overlord assignments to the credits table. I'm not sure if there's any order so I just put them in at the bottom like the how Firewalker ones were done. Also updated the totals at the top of the page. Is it confirmed that the Prometheus mission only has 3250 credits found as per the page, as the assignment pages are what I used to get the credit totals.EliminateTheOptions 03:34, June 16, 2010 (UTC) Level 6 upgrades? Can anyone confirm weather or not getting a level 6 upgrade will boost damage to 60%? I've heard that using console binds, unlocking upgrades using numbers beyond their in game intention will increase the bonus. But I've not heard anything about weather or not actually buying/researching beyond level 5 in game has any effect.--Karstedt 13:06, March 25, 2010 (UTC) :The sixth heavy weapon upgrade clearly works (can't fire the Cain twice in a row without it); I can't imagine why the sixth damage upgrade wouldn't. ShadowRanger 15:37, March 25, 2010 (UTC) Spreadsheet to track Minerals-Needed Just to let you guys know I've made a spreadsheet that'll tell you how much more of each minerial is required to get the remainder of the upgrades on your playthrough, you have to manually change the "N" (No) to "Y" (Yes) for each upgrade you get but aside from that its automated, I wasn't sure where to put this so I figured discussion part of the upgrade guide was the most relevant, its on my user page near the bottom if anyone wants to try it -- Ilovetelephones 20:45, May 7, 2010 (UTC) Move This is a small thing I want to fix. According to Category:Guides, this article is the only guide where the word "guide" in the article's title is spelled with a lowercase "g". All this move will do is capitalize that "g", so the article becomes "Upgrade Guide". Nitpicky, yes, but you can't cut corners if you want quality. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:07, June 14, 2010 (UTC) :I also agree with the move proposal for naming consistency with the other guides here. All of the other Guides have that capitalized and I see no different with this one. Lancer1289 21:07, June 14, 2010 (UTC) *I don't know where this addiction to capitalising random words comes from, but it seems to be the accepted standard here. So, sure, go ahead and move the page if you feel compelled to. -- 21:15, June 14, 2010 (UTC) Upgrades By Location Any particular reason why new weapons don't also appear in that section? Currently you have to mix and match with the By Location and By Type lists in order to get locations on everything, if nobody minds I will add the Tempest, Geth Pulse Rifle, etc to the locations list also. Mictlantecuhtli 18:46, June 22, 2010 (UTC) :Because those are weapons, not upgrades. Each weapon has their own article and in there it is detalied where you get the weapon and any other information that you need in order to get it. That information doesn't belong here becuase in additon to their own articles, it is mentioned in missions summaries and on the various walkthough pages where you acquire them. I know as I wrote most of them. This is the Upgrade Guide, where upgrades and their costs and locations are. Weapons are covered elsewhere and aren't needed here. Just becuase one upgrades another weapon, it is a complely seperate item. Whereas an upgrade may have levels or a specific funciton, i.e. hard shields. A list of where you acquire all the weapons isn't needed here. Lancer1289 18:52, June 22, 2010 (UTC) Selling Legion Is the money gained from selling Legion covered in the guide? I notice there isn't a "Sell Legion to Cerberus for research. (+50,000)" out next to Reaper IFF, and it is an option (albeit probably rarely used). Mictlantecuhtli 13:00, June 23, 2010 (UTC) :While it may seem mute, but I can see that as a good addition. While it may not be used very often, mentioning that you get 50,000 credits would be a good idea. Lancer1289 13:20, June 23, 2010 (UTC) The problem with this is it can be a bit misleading. If you sell Legion for 50,000, you cannot play his loyalty mission, which is of course still listed in the table, so you miss out on that 30,000 (plus one power cell & four med kits). So really it's only a 20,000 "profit"... can this be added/mentioned somehow? Maybe just say that selling Legion is a 20,000 profit rather than a flat 50,000? Thoughts? EliminateTheOptions 02:27, June 24, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah that works, kinda like with the volus evidence thing. The power cells, and medkits don't even need to be mentioned as you can make that 500 creds betting on a single pit fight on Tuchanka. Mictlantecuhtli 03:31, June 24, 2010 (UTC) ::I'd have to agree, since you sell Legion, and don't get its loyalty mission, you do only gain a 20,000 credit profit. So I think that should be edited, if it wasn't while I was typing this. Lancer1289 03:42, June 24, 2010 (UTC) :::I've realised that because of this extra 20,000, the total possible credits gained from missions (including DLC!) is now just over the 1,250,000 needed for all upgrades, so a fresh character could in theory get all the upgrades without any starting bonuses. Obviously this assumes that the medkit/power cell money will pay for fuel & probes and that all discounts are obtained as well as no armour pieces or trinkets purchased. Is this worth mentioning? The paragraphs at the top of the page and also just above the table may need to be modified in this case, however I don't want to dive in yet since I can't think how to reword it or if it's even worth it.EliminateTheOptions 00:27, June 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::You know I really don't see why some people have problems. I have still been able to purchase all the upgrades and still be able to explore and get the resources that I needed for all the upgrades. Only on my first walkthough did I not get all the upgrades, and I was really only off by one Assault rifle upgrade. As I was a vanguard, I really didn't care. Lancer1289 00:33, June 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::I've not found that an issue either if you meant me, I had a similar experience to you missing out on a couple of low importance upgrades on my first playthrough only. I just thought in terms of this article being meticulously detailed/correct it's something to consider.EliminateTheOptions 00:41, June 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I don't use DLC and the only upgrades someone could deem important that I never can afford are the last biotic/tech power damage upgrades. I could probably afford them if I didnt go for all the weapon upgrades, but I don't find powers all that useful on harder difficulties (since they don't always work properly, requiring multiple activations before they actually go off sometimes or shepard needing to be out of standing cover to target squad powers otherwise they hit his cover and not the enemy he has highlighted down range from behind cover) unless they are combined and 10% doesn't seem like it'd make a big difference there. Mictlantecuhtli 00:30, June 30, 2010 (UTC) Thane: Sins of the Father - Shepard VI I don't have a convenient save to check this myself, and it's not listed here or in the actual quest article. What is the amount of credits received for the renegade option of asking for a cut of the profits? Mictlantecuhtli 19:21, June 29, 2010 (UTC) :As far as I remember you get no money. I just looked at the Thane: Sins of the Father page and that says the same. I found this video (skip to 4:15) which unfortunately they edit out the bit post conversation but you can briefly see the updates, I think there's only two. The front one is the mission, the other one must be the renegade points as before 4:15 there was at least one renegade interrupt used in the conversation with mouse.EliminateTheOptions 23:38, June 29, 2010 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, you don't get any credits from the "cut". You only get two or three updates depending on what you do in the converstaion. The mission update and the paragon and/or renegade points depending on your conversation options are the only updates you get. I have also taken the converstation where you get the cut to the end of the mission where you get the updates with the credits, and you only get what is in the mission summary statment on the page. You would think that you get credits, but alas no. Lancer1289 23:42, June 29, 2010 (UTC) :::All that shows is "Talk to Bailey" I could've sworn I got credits on my renegade engineer playthrough, could be thinking of something else though. I'm going renegade on my insanity attempt, I will check it out then and pay attention to the mission summary afterwards also. Mictlantecuhtli 23:45, June 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::If you look closely at the video you can see how there is another update queued up behind it, as the game often does when there are multiples. I think Lancer has pretty much summed it up though.EliminateTheOptions 23:50, June 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::Yes that was probably the renegade points that the player earned during the conversation. Again though, as I have played through the mission before and even takign that option, I have never earned any more additional credits on the mission summary. But those are my experiences so take them as you will. Lancer1289 23:59, June 29, 2010 (UTC) Point that needs clarification "These numbers show that if you maximize your credits (and have all the appropriate DLC) you will still fall a few thousand short of purchasing all upgrades, not including trinkets. That's also not taking into account the several thousand you will probably need to spend on probes and fuel. So starting bonuses from prior playthroughs are necessary to get all upgrades." This is only true because the listed prices for the upgrades do not include the potential discounts. If you get every discount, you can buy every upgrade in the game and still have over a hundred thousand credits left over for other expenses, even without a starting bonus. 16:06, July 3, 2010 (UTC) :Ignoring that quote for a minute (which may be innaccurate), the article says at the start that you need 1,250,000 with discounts to get all upgrades, and the table shows that you get 1,189,751 total for all missions, with 47,800 based on descisions plus a few more thousand for medkits/power cells. These numbers clearly don't give you over 100,000 spare for expenses (it should add up to 1,350,000 if that were the case). Would you mind explaining how you worked it out? There may be an issue with the article somewhere, otherwise you've calculated something wrong. Thanks. 23:46, July 5, 2010 (UTC) ::Ignoring the bypass and hack modules (which are just a method for being lazy really, considering you can save and reload at the relevant areas) without discounts the cost is 1,440,000, with discounts it is 1,200,000, see my mineral tracking spreadsheet on my user page if you want to manipulate the data further. Ilovetelephones 08:13, August 12, 2010 (UTC) ::Your numbers are correct, but they ignore 500 multiplied by 4 for the start maps (which allow you to do assignments) and for Serrice brandy which gives you one upgrade and which according to this wiki costs 1000 credits. Otherwise it is fully correct (though the majority of the time you wont be able to have one discount, atleast in the PC version you need to have intimidated Conrad or he doesnt appear in ME2) I have added various other things such as the couplings etc in my calculation and I did include the bypass model. I guess the best minimum would be 1,203,000 by your count. Just to point out for instance the Shrike Abyssal map is required to do the Blood Pack Base quest which gives you 7500 credits, the others are similar.Nestorius 13:28, August 12, 2010 (UTC) :::I doubt I'll include the modules anytime soon but I may add the maps, although I do not see them as an upgrade in themselves and my spreadsheet stops at upgrade tracking, same with the coupleings. As for the modules I fail to see how they have a impact and beleive they are about as important as buying extra armor parts. Although I'd have to admit it would be interesting to see your spreadsheet and how this is organised, if you would permit showing me it? Ilovetelephones 16:21, August 12, 2010 (UTC) Missing assignment credits Below is a list of assignments which have credits and which I believe are currently not included in the table, some require credits to complete though Neutral Paragon Renegade Normandy: FBA Couplings 100 500 500 Normandy: Serrice Ice Brandy Normandy: Special Ingredients Omega: Archangel: Datapad Recovered Omega: Batarian Bartender Omega: Packages for Ish 4500 too many options here would need to expand the table Omega: Struggling Quarian Omega: The Patriarch Omega: The Professor: Missing Assistant Citadel: Crime in Progress 1000 Citadel: Found Forged ID → Citadel: False Positives 1000 3000? I have no idea how to get the 3000 Citadel: Krogan Sushi 1000 Illium: Blue Rose of Illium Illium: Conrad Verner Illium: Gianna Parasini Illium: Indentured Service 2000 Illium: Medical Scans Illium: The Assassin: Salarian Family Data Illium: The Justicar: Smuggling Evidence Illium: The Justicar: Stolen Goods Found 1500 Illium: The Prodigal: Lost Locket Found 500 Tuchanka: Combustion Manifold 1000 Tuchanka: Killing Pyjaks Tuchanka: Old Blood: Missing Scout :This is a good point. I'm not sure why these haven't been there from the start. I think they probably should be added but we should see what anyone else says. Also, I don't think they can be added until we know exactly what the credit rewards are and how to get them, or how best to present the options in ones like Omega: Packages for Ish. Plus some of them don't get you credits so I guess those wouldn't be added.EliminateTheOptions 22:56, July 20, 2010 (UTC) : : :A large number of them are option based, specifically the Omega: Packages for Ish that you mentioned. I also noticed a problem with the cost of minimum useful upgrades also (frankly I dont quite know what this means). For instance Serrice ice brandy was not on the list, though it leads to a specific "useful" upgrade, in additon the cost did not include things like the star charts on Illium which allow certain "useful" upgrades from assignments to be gained, I also added the couplings because overall you should get more money than you loose (provided you can charm or intimidate). This last one I am a bit unsure about though I included it either way, the problem is if it is included you could probably include 1 fish due to the renegade option for the Krogan Sushi quest, which also allows you to make a profit on the fish. Frankly I dont know, I am a bit pedantic with these things anyway, and in all my playthroughs of Mass Effect I try to get every single credit and mineral in missions, along with all the upgrades, I suspect I am not the only one so a detailed a breakdown of required resources and where you can get credits would be a good idea.Nestorius 15:19, July 21, 2010 (UTC) : Barren on vetting not inexhaustible Per discussion on Urz both Whamjohnny on PC and myself on the Xbox 360 have seen that betting on the varren is not a way to make credits indefinitely. I believe this should be removed from the Upgrade Guide. LeonKowalski 18:07, August 15, 2010 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Do you think it should just say that there is a limit of a few thousand? Or would you rather it went into more detail and if so do we have that detail?EliminateTheOptions 21:44, August 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes to both. If there is a limit then we do need to know that limit, and its progression to such end. Again if you have the data the please share. Lancer1289 21:51, August 15, 2010 (UTC) :::I'm afraid I didn't record the specifics. When I read what Whamjohnny describes on Talk:Urz, it sounds more generous than what I experienced on the 360, but all I can corroborate is that after four bets, Urz always loses (I could make money betting against him for that fifth round), and at some point, after "resetting" him (by leaving the area and coming back), no matter whether I bet for him, against him, or even for one of the other two varren, I always lost. I never noticed winning a single credit; it seemed to be all-or-nothing (might be a PC thing that's not in the 360 version). LeonKowalski 04:17, August 19, 2010 (UTC) By chance I noticed yet another reference to the cash cow Urz on the Planet Scanning page and made a comment on the Talk:Planet Scanning page. Apparently he was quite the crutch prior to some patch. LeonKowalski 18:33, August 19, 2010 (UTC) Heavy Weapons Ammo In my most recent play through, I had 5/5 heavy weapons ammo researches completed, including the one from the Paragon route in the Zaeed mission. When I did the Bloodpack Communications Relay mission, I got the sixth upgrade available for research in the tech lab. When I did the next assignment in that little string, another one showed up, but I was unable to research it, leading me to believe that while there are a number of possible heavy weapons upgrades in the game, only five can be researched, and the one from Zaeed's mission doesn't count towards that five, allowing for six. Just throwing that out there. Tanooki1432 19:08, August 25, 2010 (UTC) :The upgrade works and exists, I did many times the Paragon route in Zaeed mission and was able to gain the 6th heavy weapons upgrade in the Blood Pack base. But this is an very annoying bug and exits, sometimes you play the mission, the end screen tells you that you received the upgrade, but in fact you don't. The only solution is reloading and playing the mission again. And since "this's not a bug that impacts in gameplay", Bioware will not corret. ò_ó Brfritos 23:29, August 25, 2010 (UTC) Credits By Location Does the maximum credits, etc take into account the renegade option aboard the Normandy SR-2 with the engineering crews gambling? Mictlantecuhtli 11:35, August 26, 2010 (UTC) Shotgun Typo? Under Shotgun upgrades it lists Miranda loyalty mission after first elevator, (never found) but this is also the spot for an SMG upgrade (found) is the shotgun upgrade an error? because it makes it look like the new Shadowbroker Delivery can push shotguns to 7/7 with no previous DLC and so far only Assault Rifles can go up to 7/7 because of Zaeed DLC + Shadowbroker DLC Sonevar 11:51, September 9, 2010 (UTC) I concur. I corrected the mistake Shotgun upgrade location. Correct me if I'm wrong.--Commander Shepard 05:30, September 10, 2010 (UTC)